Nature as Our Co-Therapist | Gina Strauss of Center for Nature Informed Therapy

Our nervous systems react to being in nature. We feel calmer, it feels good. The smells, the fight insides, you know, that the trees are producing affect our body and calm our nervous system. You know, there's been research studies, a sleep study that what sounds heighten our nervous system and what sounds calm our nervous system and birdsong, water of any rain, ocean or wind through the trees calm our nervous system. So there's this element of our bodies calm down in nature. And then with nature informed therapy, I would say the little bit of a difference and this could be done in other outdoor therapies too. We want to take it to that level of relationship with nature and that is through kind of a more nature based, earth centric, indigenous wisdom of these are our family, these plants, these trees, these animals, Nature herself, we call her our co therapist. That it's, it's really us, the client and our co therapist, Nature.

Welcome to the Mental Health Entrepreneur podcast. We are here to inspire creative ideas and connections for entrepreneurs and advocates working to address our mental health crisis. As you listen, I hope you will experience new ideas and motivation to innovate in your business, your community and in your life. Welcome. Welcome to the Mental Health Entrepreneur Podcast. We are here for inspiration and creative ideas to support mental wellness in our communities. Rachel. I'm your host, Rachel Harrison and today we are talking to Gina Strauss. Gina is a nature informed therapist and is a faculty member of the center for Nature Informed Therapy training. Welcome, Gina. It's so good to have you.

Thank you. It's so great to be here.

So first of all, I want to talk a little bit about nature informed therapy. It sounds very simple, but I feel like there are lots of different types of therapy. I've heard of wilderness therapy, I've heard of forest bathing, and then this is nature informed therapy. Can you talk a little bit about what it is that you do?

Yeah. So nature informed therapy can look a lot of different ways. I would say the one thing that really is at the core of nature informed therapy is kind of we believe that this disconnect between the natural world and us humans really is the cause or a huge piece of our physical and mental health challenges that we're experiencing today. If we were in person and we could do a little demonstration, I would ask for 10 people to come up and to hold their arms out side to side and to stand touching fingernails. So you can imagine like 10 people standing in a line. And if we look and think, okay, that's the timeline of human history. And so if we go walking down the line person 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, down to the bottom of their fingernail. That is how much time we human have lived in connection with nature. We've lived outside, we've smelled the smells, we've heard the birds, we've eaten the plants, we've connected with animals, we've paid attention to the weather, the seasons, all of those things. And it really isn't until that last person, the 10th person's fingernail, that about 200 years ago or so that we started to live inside and in the fluorescent lights, in the computers, you know, more recently wearing shoes with rubber soles, you know, or eating processed food, like all the things. And it's really kind of done a number on us because we're so disconnected and it's affected us in so many different ways. And so with Nature Informed Therapy there's kind of like a level one which is kind of as you're mentioning in wilderness therapy and other things, our nervous systems react to being in nature. We feel calmer, it feels good. The smells, the fight insides, you know, that the trees are producing affect our body and calm our nervous system. You know, there's been research studies, a sleep study that what sounds heighten our nervous system and what sounds calm our nervous system and birdsong, water of any, you know, rain, ocean or wind through the trees calm our nervous system. So there's this element of our bodies calm down in nature. And then with Nature Informed Therapy, I would say the little bit of a difference and this could be done in other outdoor therapies too. We want to take it to that level of relationship with nature and that is through kind of a more nature based, earth centric, indigenous wisdom of these are our family, these plants, these trees, these animals. Nature herself, we call her our co therapist that it's, it's really us, the client and our co therapist, nature. And so that's what we're wanting to do as therapists. You know, obviously all of us therapists, we want to eventually have our clients be to a place where they don't need us anymore.

Yeah.

And the beautiful thing about Nature Informed therapy is that we're working to help clients develop that relationship with nature so that we can step out and they can access nature anywhere really, and be able to have that as a really calming thing also, but then also to see themselves reflected in nature. Because we are nature like humans are nature. We've kind of like disassociated ourselves from that and made ourselves more powerful somehow, you know, for many different reasons. But you know, we are nature. And so when we can see ourselves in there, which is very therapeutic and really healing. So it could take a form of doing a walk and talk in nature. It could take the form of meeting at a park and sitting down near a lake or sitting down near some trees. It could even be done in the office. I have a whole basket of nature objects that we use. You know, if client comes in, you know, what object in the basket is really reflecting how your anxiety is feeling today, you know, or how you've been feeling with this relationship issue or whatever. It could be really the biophilic design of your office, where there's plants, there's pictures of nature, there's maybe birdsong playing in the background on YouTube video. There's lots of different ways you can bring that in. Or it could be telehealth, where you're sitting outside in a safe, confidential place on your computer so your client sees the background of the trees. Or your client could be sitting outside or taking a walk on their phone or both. And it could also look the way of. I'm going to prescribe a little bit of nature homework. So maybe during this break, you find a little sit spot, you know, somewhere and spend 10 minutes a day just observing, you know, what's happening. And that can be really nice as well, because one of the things that's happened with our disconnect from nature is related to attachment and how we don't have that sense of place. Attachment. It's like going into a party where you know everybody, you feel really good and like you're welcome there and you're a part of it, but yet when we go even sometimes into our backyards, we don't know what the tree's name is or what kind of plant this is, or what this bug is that's crawling on my house or whatever. They've done a study with kids that they can name 100 different logos, like Target and Under Armour and McDonald's and all those things. But you ask them, like, what is that tree in your backyard? And they don't know. And so sit spot is a great activity where they can just sit and really get to know. If you do that on a regular basis, you can get to know your. Your space around you, wherever you choose to be. And it makes you start to feel connected, which is so important because so many of us are lonely. You know, there's a lot of studies on loneliness now, which even got heightened during COVID So, you know, that's another element too. So I'd say, you know, going back to your original question, I think with nature Informed Therapy, the premise underneath is this disconnection that we have to nature. And what we're looking to do is to help people reconnect. I will say with that too, we all have a thread to nature. You know, sometimes clients will come in and say, I don't want to do any of that nature stuff. I don't. I don't like nature. Right. But usually through the course of working with somebody, you'll see, well, I kind of really like cardinals, you know, the bird, or I like water. I like taking Epsom salt baths, or my dad used to go fishing with me. And I kind of remember that. That thread to nature, when we can help our client identify that, is kind of the way back to the relationship.

And you're talking about a relationship with the earth or a relationship with nature.

Yes, with the natural world, which in turn is a relationship back to ourselves, because we are nature. You know, I had a client. She was living alone, in her 60s and working, and right up at the face of her computer was a sliding glass door. And she had a little squirrel friend that she would give nuts to every day. And it was this beautiful relationship of every day. She waited for that little squirrel to come, and they had an interaction every day. And when he wasn't there, she missed him, you know, and he wasn't there, he missed her. And it was really beautiful. It was a highlight in her day. And it kind of helped a little bit with that sense of loneliness. And then from there, you know, we can kind of expand on. Here's our human to animal connection. Is there ways to work on the human to human connection from there? Right.

There are a lot of therapies that do that, for sure. Pet therapy, equine therapy, that kind of thing. Yeah. So how did you get started with this work? I mean, as a therapist, you had a lot of choices of the type of work to do. Why this work?

Even though my family was not very outdoor oriented, I knew from an early age I was really connected to animals. One thing, trees. You know, when I think about my thread to nature, these are my threads. Animals and trees and water. And I loved being outside. And so it was kind of like that level one, Right. As a kid and a teen and even a young adult, I just felt better in nature. I felt more grounded in nature. And so as I kind of got older and developed as an adult, I started to realize, like, wow, I feel really safe in nature, and I can really watch the seasons and realize, like, how much connection there is to what's going on with me. We talk a lot in Nature Informed therapy of meaning and metaphor that, you know, we can make and help a client make. I was working with a client in her 40s who was going through a lot of really, really, really heavy things. We were doing a walk and talk, and I'd never seen this before. We saw two Little Foxes playing, and we talked a little bit about the meaning she made from that. And she was like, you know, life has been so heavy for me. This kind of feels like it's reminding me to play a little bit. And like, I could have made any interpretation, but it's not my interpretation to make. It was her interpretation to make, you know, and again, that's that we're helping them build the relationship to nature. So it was really beautiful. So I think as I got older, I started to realize there are so many things that I can have nature be, as we would say, like our mirror, our mentor, some kind of offering me some kind of medicine here. So when I got my degree and license, I was a little bit worried that I, you know, could I find someplace or some modality which Nature Informed Therapy is one. Like, there's still other modalities I work with, and it's really easily incorporated to so many things, even if it is just a biophilic design in your office. But I came upon Dr. Heidi Schreiber Pan, who is the founder of the center for Nature Informed Therapy. We met and I was a member of her first cohort of the training, the Nature Informed Therapy training in the June of 2021, and have worked as a Nature Informed therapist since then, I would say as a trainer now of the Nature Informed Therapist, which I will say we do have a huge group of people that have gone through the training who are therapists, social workers, psychologists, counselors, and we're also starting to get a collection of people who are really interested in bringing this work back to their field. So whether it is outdoor education, whether there's teachers, whether there's people in the medical field, more recently we had an OB GYN who graduated from the program who was extremely excited about bringing this work, this Nature Informed lens, back to the women that she worked with, and she's also a professor and wanting to integrate it into medical school, which was very, very exciting. I think people are really finding solace in nature and guidance. And, you know, we like to say, you know, nature is everywhere and for everyone too, so we don't have to be going To a national park or even a local park, you can find nature indoors. You know, even if you're looking out the window or if there's a plant there or you take a shower, you know, it's the water. And it's very exciting that there's so many people that are bringing this into the work and all over. Addictions, children, families, grief, work, anxiety, work. So many different areas.

Yeah, that is exciting. And I definitely want to come back to it. But talk to me a little bit about the science. You mentioned something that the trees release that calm our nervous systems.

Yeah. So when we do our trainings, we talk about kind of four areas of research. One is the cycle evolutionary theory, which is kind of what I was referring to when I had the timeline of human history and about how our DNA is really in. Our bodies are really structured. The sounds that we hear, like the study about the bird song in the water, our senses, you know, our sense of sight. The color green is in the middle of the wavelength of light. And because it's in the middle, it makes it a little easier for our eyes to perceive green and still have extra space. And so literally the color green is very relaxing because it's less work. Also fractals. So fractals are shapes that are repeated over and over. There's so many fractals in nature. The fern is kind of a good example because each little leaf almost represents, you know, a similar spirals, all of those things. Studies have shown that it relaxes us. The phytoncides, which are the chemicals the trees produce to ward off bugs. Actually, studies have shown calm our bodies down. Earthing is a big term that people have been talking about a lot more, getting more pressed, that literally there's like an ionic exchange from the earth to our feet to our bodies. It's very relaxing. There's also a lot of research in the area of attention restoration theory, which means that when we are in a space that we can be engaged, but with a soft fascination. We're not making our frontal lobe work so hard, like when we're doing emails or writing reports. We have to pay attention, but we don't have to be zoomed in. We can have a soft fascination with the landscape or something. Our brains can relax. It's like having a little bit of a rest. Whether even people just go outside for five minutes, take a break from your computer. It literally just relaxes our brain. This is really awesome too, that of course, going out in nature is the most ideal. But even seeing pictures of nature or watching A video of a nature scene produces very similar results to being out in nature, too. And even more relaxing than other kinds of things, like reading a book or watching a movie or something just some time. Also great with like adhd, there's been studies showing that kids and adults, you know, get so much benefits, so much brain relaxation from being outside. There's also been some scientific studies about awe and gratitude. And so when we experience awe, we get into this state where we are more connected with other people and more generous and giving. You know, if we all watch something together, whatever it is, like a beautiful sunrise or something like that, we bond. Like it's a bonding experience to witness something together. And when we're in that state of awe, we tend to be more giving and connected. And so, of course, we all need that a lot more now, right? Our world needs that. So the places that we find awe, nature is one of those places. It can also be in art or music or birthday death, like those kind of experiences. But nature is a place. Again, think of the Grand Canyon. But you can also think of this spider doing a web right on your window screen. That can inspire all in people too. So psychoevolutionary attention restoration theory, awe, and then the attachment research. We really can have a place attachment if there is a certain place that in your childhood or. I remember a client talking about these willow trees that surrounded the street where her grandfather lived in South Carolina. Just thinking about them even brought her to this place of peace and safety. Speaking about that, she was a client I worked with in Baltimore City. You know, I think there can be this misperception that again, that nature has to be out there or somewhere, you know, in a park or anything, and nature really is everywhere. A group that I was working at Baltimore City with a homeless shelter with women who were recovering from addiction, and this one woman was talking about, like, the stars. You can see them pretty much, except for any kind of light pollution and stuff like that, but you can pretty much see the stars. And how she recognized, like, she would always look up to that as kind of like an aspiration. And when she started to do some research into stars, she realized, oh, my gosh, the stars are made up of the same thing as me. Like, I'm actually the same as a star. And the meaning she created from that was amazing. So I would really want people listening to know. Nature looks so many different ways. Clouds, weather, birds, trees, plants. It's all nature. And people can create so much meaning and get so much healing from that.

I love that. Yeah, So I like this idea of nature informed therapy and it makes sense, sense to me how that works, like in a therapy office. But what about people that are taking this to different places? I'm curious, do you have some examples or some ideas of what that would look like?

Mindfulness in nature is a big piece. So whether they add that on to the beginning or end of, you know, whatever program that they might have, I think that the biophilic design, because of regulations in their field, aren't able to work outside with people. So it's bringing the nature indoors. As I said, the ob gyn, because she has some access to curriculum, is working on changing the curriculum a little bit to bring in some kind of like that level one. Can we experience nature to calm our nervous system? I mean we probably all need nervous system calming. Whether it's being mindful of your senses in nature, just sitting like a meditation for 10 minutes. Let's just listen to the sounds, to the smells, to the feel of the wind on our skin. And I'm thinking of some other people, you know, the outdoor education folks, they do have easy access to try out some of these practices.

Sure.

Honestly too, and I will say this is another thing people are really expressing whether they're therapists or not. This work is so beneficial to their own personal self care. Right. And I think that that's a really big piece of this, is that they're going even deeper to understanding how soothing this can be for themselves. You know, I've talked to therapists about there's a lot of burnout as a therapist because of what we do. And so some people have said it kind of almost feels like cheating a little bit to like do this for my work because of the such the support of our co therapist nature. Even if people can take it back into their practice where they have a couple plants in the office or have something that's, that feels really good for them in their office or their workspace and they take their little five minute breaks a couple times during the day. It just really enhances their own life as well.

So you've mentioned level one a few times. There are other levels, I take it.

Well, I guess I meant when I say level one, I'm meaning more like just the base level of what it can do to our nervous system, how nature can help support our nervous system. When I say level two, I kind of mean like the meaning we can make and the relationship building.

Yeah, I see. Is are there any more levels than that or just those two levels?

Just those two levels. Right. And I think they're very, very wide. They're very long, wide levels. Yeah. And I guess they're two aspects, I guess not really A levels, I think, guess they're two aspects of just the support that nature can provide that our ancestors used to have continually that we got disconnected. One of the other things that's kind of happened to us, and I mentioned this because it connects to anxiety, which is a big thing that we see as therapists, is because we've been disconnected to nature, we've become a little bit or a lot addicted to comfort. Like, we have our air conditioning and heating set on a certain temperature. We have our drive throughs. You know, as a Starbucks drive through person myself, my two daughters are in college now. I remember going to their campus tours and stuff and there's like this little robot that literally like delivers the food to your dorm room so you don't even have to get up to go to the dining hall. The technology is amazing, so there's a lot of amazing things about it. But what it's done, I think is we can't tolerate distress as much. And so nature can be such a great guide in experiencing distress. Whether it's, it's a little bit too cold, you know, it's a little bit too hot, it's safe enough, like we're not going to have hypothermia or you know, have heat stroke. That's the red zone. We don't want to be there, but could we be in the yellow zone of, oh, this is a little bit uncomfortable, like these mosquitoes are a little bit uncomfortable, like we're protecting ourselves. But this hike is a little bit more challenging or whatever it might be, it's really great opportunity. And when we can be in that level of distress and know that we can move past it, it's a great resilience builder. One of the quotes that we use in our training, and I will summarize it, is it's almost like an inoculation. When you get a vaccine or something, you get a little bit of the virus itself, right. To build resilience to it. So it's like exposing yourself. And we sometimes, you know, especially we talk about children, right? We need to be good role models in ourselves. If it is raining, like, couldn't we still go for a walk in the rain even though you get wet? But what it does is the little bit that we do that it then can relate to other things too. Like can I tolerate getting less than an A on my exam or having this conflict with my friend or feeling some social anxiety, Can I tolerate that knowing that it's a step towards growth? It's another element that again, people can practice on their own. And we can also help clients that you are resilient, you know, and you can tolerate this distress because it's moving you towards where you want to go. Right.

I love that. I definitely see that as a need for all human beings because we all have those uncomfortable situations that often lead to growth if we can tolerate them. So I'm curious. There are definitely nature lovers in the world, right?

Yeah.

So what would you say is different between doing nature informed therapy versus being someone who regularly likes to go and do outdoor things?

Yeah, that's a really great question. And it also leads to this important part, which is just because I may love nature and have really positive experiences does not mean that my client coming in feels the same way. And so assessment is very important to see where your client is. You know, maybe it starts with a little activity, even know, even the biophilic design. Then. Then maybe it goes to using nature objects in your office. It's very titrated because people have experienced trauma in nature. Nature is beautiful and nature is powerful too. So it's really important to assess where your client is. Some people have had trauma in nature, whether it's themselves now or historically trauma in nature. And so assessment is really important with that. I think it's the intentionality of how we go into nature. So, you know, and we even talk about this sometimes we can go for a hike, right. And get that cardio and. And maybe even be mindful and we can be very intentional and say, I'm going to go and take a hike or a walk or whatever it might be with the intention of seeing how nature is. My mentor right now, like, what can I observe in nature that maybe is a message for me? So it's kind of the intentionality of it. And we also, you know, need to hold that for our clients. If we do a walk and talk, we have to be very careful of boundaries with ourselves because it's not a chit chat, walk and talk with your best friend.

Yeah, yeah.

We're therapist and client and so we can hold that intentionality of. Okay, she's been working on this, you know, and let me see if anything kind of comes up that meaning can be made. So I think that point is really important. Right. That it's not just we're just hanging out in nature, but there's an intentionality to the experience.

And so these trainings you mentioned are open to definitely therapists, but also non therapists. So really anyone, I guess. Are there any qualifications that someone would have to have to come to a training?

Yes, anyone can come to the training. If they are a non mental health professional, they need to do a short mental health first aid training that we provide. It's like an hour training so they have some background when they're coming. Generally the people who are coming like have a reason for it, whether they're a naturalist and wanting to kind of just have a little bit more understanding of mental health before they work with people in groups. We have two parts to the training. One is a three day in person kind of intensive training from nine to five people. Generally if they're come from out of town, generally stay at the location. And after you complete that, you're considered trained in nature informed therapy. If you continue on with a three month mentorship program which is online and virtual, where you get support from someone trained and doing the work for three months and have group meetings and things like that, if you're a mental health professional, be considered certified, a certified nature informed therapist, or if you're not a mental health professional, certified nature informed practitioner. Okay, yeah, that's great.

So we're almost out of time, but I want to ask you, what is your vision for doing this work? Is there any kind of ideas you have, things you'd like to see even if they're pie in the sky?

I have a little big actually place in my heart for children and family. One group and kind of women, another group. I have been a Montessori teacher. Parenting my own two children has been really important part of my identity, I think. And so I'm really excited to continue to bring this work to work with children, to families, to parents. You know, how nature is such a role model for parenting. There's actually a really great book I just started reading called the Evolved Nest and it says nature's way of raising children and creating connected communities. It talks about kind of animal communities and how animals raise their young. And so for me, I think parenting and children, there's research that if children have even just one really positive experience in nature as a young child, it lasts their whole lifetime. And so I really would like to do that. And I'm also really interested in what we can learn from the seasons. I know in traditional Chinese medicine and acupuncture and other things that that is based on. There is really a lot of really wisdom in the seasonal, the cyclical nature of the seasons. And so I'm really interested in that too. It's exciting for me when I talk to the people either. In the trainings, we also have, like a level. This is a level two. We also have a, I would say additional trainings in specific topics. So we're coming up with eco art play therapy. It is full for now, but later this month, there's like an attachment and trauma training. So it's kind of like, goes a little bit specific. It's wonderful. And we also offer events for the general public, whether there's like an intro to backpacking or we just had a grief retreat over the weekend where people could come who have experienced some kind of loss. Talking to people who've either have attended these kind of events or are in professionals being trained brings me so much hope to know that people all over this country and in Canada and even, you know, we get emails from other countries and other parts of the globe that this work is being done and people are just really experiencing so much healing.

Awesome.

So I'm excited to kind of stay connected to the field for that reason too, you know, especially for something that feels really passionate for me. Awesome.

Well, thank you so much for being here and taking the time. If you want to know more about nature informed therapy, you can check out all the details in the show notes. Thanks so much, Gina.

Thank you.

Hey, everyone. Before we go, I wanted to mention a podcast that I am loving right now. It is the Back Porch Bestie. I love this podcast because it gets pretty real pretty quickly. There's a lot in there that Casey and Kelsey share about their own personal growth, and they have such great guests on there that really share their own journeys as well. Listen to the trailer now. Then head to the Show Notes to find the show's link and subscribe. I think you'll like it too.

So, Kelsey, so, Casey, serious question. Did you ever think you would be here?

No, I didn't. And by here, do you mean, like,

literally right here in this moment, recording a podcast about a book that you are in?

No, absolutely not.

Like running this business in the way that you are. Building a house, having seven people in the house we're currently living in. Oh, and a new pottery business and doing consulting. Did you ever think that you would be here?

No.

I think that there's pieces of me that always have wanted to be here, but I didn't know. I kind of just stumbled across it back two years ago, our conversation. It just unraveled a thread.

Yeah. So you think you had the potential all along you just needed?

Yeah, I Just needed somebody to believe in me.

Oh, well, I think I'm the opposite. You know, like, always out looking for more, looking for the next thing, like doing this, doing that, and, you know, all of. All of it. And then I met you, and you slowed me down substantially.

Yeah, you're a cliff jumper, and I'm more of, like, a puddle jumper.

I don't even think you're a puddle jumper. I think you're like a puddle viewer. Let me see where the rocks are. Oh, there's a minnow. See it?

But it protects me. Yeah. What? I don't know myself.

What?

Are you gonna hurt yourself?

Maybe jumping off that cliff. I might break my neck.

You'd be like a little roly poly. Like, just curl up in a ball and roll down the hill. Pew.

Oh, God.

So for real, how does it feel to be a little bit more like maybe a heel jumper now?

Yeah, I mean, I like it more because it makes me more confident and feel competent that when I do jump off the hill, that I land on both feet. And if I don't land on my feet, I figure it out. Right?

Yeah. And I think you've helped me because now when I am jumping off things, I'm not just jumping off cliffs just

to say that I did it.

I'm jumping off because there's joy there. Hi, I'm Casey, and right here beside me is Kelsey. We are licensed professional counselors, mothers, entrepreneurs. Oh, and besties. We know firsthand what it's like to wake up one day and think, how in the heck did I wind up here?

There. Through our own journeys of self discovery, we found that joy is something that has to be pursued through internal work. Now we are on a mission to help women from all walks of life understand themselves more so they can have real, lasting joy.

Join us every Thursday to hear fun and insightful interviews with experts who can point you toward self discovery and fulfillment.