Supporting Grieving Kids Through Play and Connection | Brie Overton of Experience Camps

For our first year campers, they don't know what to expect. They know that they're getting on a shuttle, they're coming to grief camp. I'm meeting all these new people. What it allows us to do is really quiet. The outside world right there aren't the influences of other friends, outside voices or other noises or even electronics. We're an electronic free zone. And it really, really allows the kids to really immerse into the community and into the setting at camp where grief is really at the forefront of everything that we do. So you're coming to camp because your person died. We want you to explore and learn new things about yourself. We want you to try new things while you're here at camp. Try some of these coping strategies on and do they work? Do they not work? What works for you? What doesn't work for you? We're asking them to trust us for this period of this week and really allow some transformations to happen and to take place.

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Welcome back, everyone, to the Mental Health Entrepreneur Podcast. I am your host, Rachel Harrison, and with me today is Bri Overton. Bri is the chief clinical officer of Experience Camps, which are essentially grief camps for kids. Welcome, Bri.

Hi. Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here.

Yeah. So let's go ahead and dive into Experience Camps. Can you tell me a little bit about what they are and then also how they got started?

Of course. So Experience Camps, we're a national nonprofit and we support kids who experience the death of parent, sibling, primary caregiver, or someone significant through one week overnight camps during the summer. We also have a host of other ways that we support our campers and our families throughout the year. So there's a lot of. We call it beyond the bunk support and other support that happens outside of those weeks of camp.

Okay, very cool. So how did all this start? If it's. It's nationwide. So you're telling me it's in multiple locations across the U.S. okay, yeah, we.

We do have multiple locations across the US and we started in 2009 with a small group of 27 boys at Camp in Maine, Camp Manito. And from there we branched out to California, came back across the states and have camps in Michigan, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Georgia, as well as our camp still In Maine and California. And we have a weekend camp that this will be our second year there in Maui.

Oh, nice. That sounds good. What does this look like? How do kids find you first of all, and then what is their path once they connect with you?

Sure. Yeah. We do a lot of outreach throughout the year. You know, one of our things is making sure that we are meeting kids and meeting families where they are. So we want to be able to offer grief support. We want to be able to offer grief support through camps. And so people find us through nonprofit organizations. They find us through bereavement centers and other grief centers. Centers and other programs that support kids. So whether that's before and after school programs, hospice organizations, and different places like that, our kiddos will fill out an application along with their caregiver. That application will come to us, we'll do an intake. We'll figure out which camp, usually, depending on location, will best support them, and then we get them set up for camp. And so camp is like all other summer camps. There's lots and lots of activities that our kiddos participate in. So there are a number of movement activities and athletic activities and arts and crafts. Lots and lots of different things. We'll do hikes, and we'll do yoga and different things that really allow our campers to tap into their grief in different ways. Each of those programs, we have a clinical program and a clinical team. And so our campers sit through and participate in sharing circles as well as clinical activities that really allow them to lean into their grief, acknowledge that grief. Where are we feeling it in our bodies? And what do we do outside of camp that helps us cope. And, you know, here are some other activities and other strategies that we want to try on this week, and let's see if it works and see if it sticks. And our hope is that we are planting seeds for our kiddos to then use at camp, but also take home with them to use, whether that's school or with their families, and still lean into that grief. Being able to acknowledge and talk about that grief and learning how to support themselves through it.

Yeah. So I'm very curious about how this idea of the camp was created and maybe why it's better than, say, joining a grief group or therapy or something like that. Maybe it's not better. Maybe it's just different. But I'm curious what some of those differences might be.

We believe in working with our kids through play. So kids learn through play, they grieve through play. And so we really lean into the idea of play. And kids, you know, they learn through play, they're grieving through play. And a lot of times, kids love to play together. And so we bring kids to camp who all have similar experience, right? They've experienced this death of their caregiver or parent or of a sibling. We're bringing them together. They're forming connections, they're building community, and they are learning through their play and really, really learning how to connect together, how to talk about their grief and what that looks like in camp, and then what does that look like as they're branching out and leaving from camp? So, you know, a number of folks will come to us, and they have individual therapists, or they do go to group therapy, whether that's, you know, with a counselor or a therapist, or they're receiving other grief support outside of camp. And one of the things that we hear a lot is that when they come to camp, they feel this sense of community, right? They feel connected. We encourage our campers to come back year after year. So, you know, they're meeting their cohort of friends and bunk mates, and they are growing together through their grief as they age. Our kiddos can stay through us through their rising senior year, and then they can come back as junior counselors, and then they can come back after that as counselors. And so it's like this full circle of I'm receiving support, I'm learning how to provide support, and now I am providing support. And, you know, our younger kids get to witness that and watch as the older kids are learning and growing through their grief, as they, too, are learning and growing through their grief. So the model of really having our kids come to camp to receive support and also being able to witness the other kids as they're continuing to grow and full circle, come back to be able to support is one of those special things about the program we hear a lot. You know, there's this magic that happens at camp, and we're there to definitely help facilitate that space and facilitate the magic. Our kids are doing all the work. Our kids are growing, they're learning, they're being open and flexible, and they're learning really how to connect with others and work with others and really process through their grief.

Do you think there's something to the component of, like, you're leaving your home environment, you're going away for a full week, it's any kind of group or even therapy, that same adjustment period might not be there.

Correct. So there is a bit of. Not even a bit. I mean, like you said, they're leaving Away from their homes. They are coming to camp. You know, some of our kids are returners, so they know what to expect. For our first year campers, they don't know what to expect. They know that they're getting on a shuttle. They're coming to grief camp. I'm meeting all these new people. What it allows us to do is really qualify quiet the outside world, right? There aren't the influences of other friends, outside voices or other noises or even electronics. We're an electronic free zone. So all of those exterior things that happen at home are really at very, very low volume. We're at camp, and it really, really allows the kids to really immerse into the community and into this setting at camp where grief is really at the forefront of everything that we do. So you're coming to camp because your person died. We want you to explore and learn new things about yourself. We want you to try new things while you're here at camp. Try some of these coping strategies on and do they work? Do they not work? What works for you? What doesn't work for you? But it's really. We're asking them to trust us for this period of this week and really allow some transformations to happen and to take place. So come to camp. Here's what to expect. And then there is going to be some growth from the time that you arrive through the time that you leave.

What kind of stories have you seen? Can you share any? I don't want to break any confidentiality, but anything that you can kind of share with the audience, of course.

You know, one of my favorite moments at camp, we have all the buses coming on the first day of arrival, and our kiddos are getting off. And like I said, some of our returners know what to expect. The new campers are kind of like, you know, I don't know what's happening here. So all the kids grab their things, they go off to their bunks. They're learning each other and meeting each other. And some of those kids in the beginning of the week that were hesitant or a little slower to warm up at the end of the week or now, I don't want to go home. It can't be another two weeks. Can we make camp longer? Why does this have to be the last day? But it's so fun here. And so being able to just be a witness of, you know, we have kiddos that are coming to camp, and they may be a little hesitant at first or really not knowing what to expect. And then by the end of the week, people Are exchanging telephone numbers and contact information. I want to stay connected with you, but just to see how, like, they really, really do lean into their grief. They really lean into the space. And there's a great deal of trust that they have when they come into camp. And watching that transformation over the week, like, talking about it, it's giving me the warm and fuzzies right now. But just to see how they change over the course of a short week. Right. A week is, in the grand scheme of thing, is very. It's a very short amount of time. But to see how they've changed over that course of the week is really eye opening, is very moving, just to be able to witness that.

And so I would expect that all kids kind of grieve differently. Right? And so how does camp manage some of those things? That there might be all kinds of different ways of handling things, different emotions, all of that.

Of course, you know, at camp, all feelings are welcome. All emotions are welcome. We work on what it looks like to really acknowledge those feelings, what it looks like to express those different feelings that we're having. And. And also how do we cope through those feelings. And when you're at camp, like I said, everything is welcome. Let's talk about it. If this makes you angry, what does it look like when you're angry? Do we need to stomp it out? Do we need to take a walk? Do we need to kick a ball? Do I need to hit something? Like, what are the things that are happening in my body as I connected with this feeling? And then another thing that we get to do is really cater those needs and those feelings too. What does this look like outside of camp? So at camp, if I get upset, if I get angry, this is one way that I can get this feeling out or I can process through it. If I'm at school, what does that look like? Right? Like, can I also express myself or get this feeling out of my body in this way? Or is there another way that I can possibly express this feeling? And so it's really being able to explore with the kids acknowledging that feeling, feeling that feeling. And then what are those appropriate ways to really process through that feeling in different settings? So whether I'm at camp or I'm at home, whether I am at school or, you know, I'm at practice or playing in the game or, you know, something, one of those extracurricular activities, how do I acknowledge and express and then how do I allow myself to move through it in a way that works for me and is also appropriate for this space that I'm in currently, that makes sense.

But it sounds like it's also about a lot of fun. Sounds like you do a lot of the usual camp activities too.

Too. Yes, yes. It's all about fun. And we definitely lean in, lean into the fun. You know, our kiddos, they have water time at some of our camp. We have horses, and so there's horseback riding, there are lakefront activities. There's also like tower climbing. We have a big swing at some of our camps as well. And so all the activities that you can imagine a kiddo enjoying at a day camp or at any other camp are also happening as well. Well, and then we have those times where we're reflecting or we're taking a mindful hike, or we're sitting by the water and really being able to have a conversation about what our grief has been like and what our journey has been like and how we're able to process through those things.

Yeah, yeah. And then it sounds like there's a big effort from your team to make sure people are staying connected and somehow linked into that community that gets created. So can you talk a little bit about those people?

I will. I will. So definitely we want to make sure that our campers and their caregivers are staying connected throughout the year. So I mentioned we have our one week camps that right now are happening in August. Outside of that, we have different events that we host for our campers. So this past weekend, we actually hosted camper meetups. We did camper meetups in each of our regions in person. And then we also had a virtual camper meetup. And so it's a great way for our campers to come together to see their bunk mates, to see some of their counselors from camp. If you're joining us on the Internet and in the virtual meetup, it's a great way to see campers across those programs and to just like connect and hop in and have a little bit of fun until we sign off for the next time. So we do camper meetups twice a year. We also host a virtual campfire in December. So we invite our families and our campers to come and we spend about an hour together reflecting and thinking about our person and talking about our person. We light a candle and so, you know, you can see it across, zoom in all the boxes with the candles lit up again, just another way for us to be able to really connect with our families, to let our families know that we are here. We want to be able to support them and that they're not alone in their grief. We want to make sure that all the things that we're doing, we're thinking about how are kiddos are feeling. Kiddos outside of camp and outside. Sometimes the support services feel isolated. They may not have anybody to talk to at school or at home. And so we always want to make sure that we're thinking about how we're keeping them connected and what that looks like throughout the year. We also have what we call Experience Camps online. So we have different ways that we connect with our kiddos through. It's called Experience Craft. So it's like Minecraft, but it's a safe listed server for our kiddos to come.

Oh, wow.

Build. Yeah, it's really, really cool. They get to build and explore together. And so we host different events through our Experience Craft server as well. They've been really, really neat for our campers and for kiddos who have never physically been to camp, but they are a camper. For Experience Craft, we host a number of what we call PTGs or they're called Playing through Grief Events where we connect with existing organizations in communities. We bring in camp activities and, you know, we'll work with kiddos who are supported through the center as well as inviting some of our campers to come in as well. And so we call those Playing Through Grief Events. Those are, you know, an hour, they may be two or four hours long depending on the activity. But it allows people to come and really talk about their grief. We acknowledge that there is grief and we normalize grief in those feelings that our kiddos are feeling. We started a new website this year called griefsucks.com and it is for teens, for teens to call. There are a number of videos that they can look at and there are polls and you know, you get to see other kids and celebrities talk about their grief and talk about their grief journey. And our hope is that people are feeling less isolated and feeling more connected as they're looking through some of those videos and reading some of the information that is there. So there are lots of things that we do throughout the year, you know, with our. Our number one goal is to make sure that our kiddos are feeling supported throughout the year.

That's fantastic. So how did you get connected with working with grief? I'm curious about that question.

I am a former grieving kid and so I was in the fourth grade. My cousin who was a fifth grader died in her sleep and I had a ton of support from her family, from my family, our siblings, our community were from A very small community. And so we had just a ton of support. And as I grew older, I realized that that was not what some people would call typical or normal. Right. To have a lot of support, to be able to talk about what it is that you're feeling, to talk about that loss and to talk about that nap. And so it has been my mission to be the person who was there for me when I was a kid. And so I want to make sure that kiddos have a space. I want to make sure that kiddos know that, like, grief is normal. Grief is a normal reaction to loss. And I want to make sure that people, one, they know that and that they have support. And how can I get you connected and what does this look like? I have been doing grief camp for a number of years, since 2009. I first started volunteering with Experience Camps in 2016, and I started as a clinician for our California camp, and, you know, have worked as a clinician and as one of our clinical directors for a couple of locations. And then I transitioned into this role in 2020 and have been in this role since then. And I love that I am now supporting our kids through our different clinical programs that happen across everything that we offer and all the support that we offer for our campers. I'm working closely with our clinical directors and our grief specialists at camp to make sure that we are providing the best support that we can when the campers come and see us, whether it's at camp, whether it's at one of our family camps, or, you know, at a number of our other events that we host throughout the year.

Yeah, that makes sense. I love that connection. You have some personal experience that can help you, guide you in what these kids might need. That's fantastic.

Thank you.

What is your vision for Experience Camp? So what do you see? What are. What are some of the big goals? What do you all want to accomplish?

Yeah, so, you know, there are 6 million kiddos that are grieving the loss of someone significant. We want to make sure that we are bridging that gap. We want to make sure that we are providing and offering the best support that we can. And, you know, we can only serve so many kiddos through camp. And so our goal was to really make sure that we are one, continuing to be able to support kiddos through camp and with our other programs. Experience camps online, grief sucks.com like, we want to make sure that we are being able to reach kiddos even if we can't see them physically right at camp, at A Plane through grief event at one of our family camps. And so what does this look like as we continue to move forward and expand online, meeting our kids virtually and being able to support them in different ways? And so we want to make sure that we are continuing to create a grief smart culture. And we want to make sure that we're continuing to support kids and meet kids where they are. That also involves connecting with our caregivers, making sure that their caregivers feel supported, but we want to continue to support kiddos and meet them where they are and provide the best support that we can for them. Mm.

How do you usually get referrals, then?

We do a lot of outreach into the community, so we are connected with hospitals and hospice organizations. We're connected with school, before and after school programs. We also have a number of volunteers. So you can imagine with camps across the nation, we have a wide base of volunteers throughout the nation, and so we are connected through our volunteers connections. So there's a lot of networking that happens, A lot of let's get the name out. And this is how we can do it in this location or do it in this location. We empower our volunteers to talk about the volunteering and the work that they do with us so that people are reaching out to us and asking questions and, you know, asking, how do we get involved? How do we get a kid signed up? If I have a family that I think would be great for this program, what are next steps? And so we want to make sure that, you know, we're empowering our volunteers, that our kiddos and our families are spreading the word and that more and more kids and more and more families are being able to find us, whether that is virtually or whether they're connecting with us on the phone or even coming to one of our camps.

Yeah, that makes sense. Is there a plan to add more camps in more states? Is this something that's going to keep growing?

Yes, there is. So the plan is to continue to add camps as we continue to move forward. So our next new camp will open the summer of 2025. So we'll open a location in Connecticut. Right now in the Northeast, we have a Pennsylvania camp, a main camp, and then we have our Maryland camp. We have a growing wait list across all of our camps. So we want to make sure that we are opening in places where one, there's a need and we can support our families and support our kiddos. And so there is a great need in the Northeast as we are looking at the camps that are already exist there. And the growing wait list. And we want to make sure that we are providing a camp and a location for kiddos who are on that wait list and also for kids who live in the area that could benefit from this type of support.

Right. And I don't think we've addressed this here, but all of your services are free that you've mentioned here, Is that correct?

Are. They are. So all of our camps are at no cost to our families. We also, you know, provide a shuttle to get the kiddos from our shuttle stops to camp. And so a cost may be associated if there is a flight, but we do also offer travel scholarships for our families as well. So we want to make sure that there aren't barriers, Right. Like barriers of cost in the way of receiving that support. And we want to make sure that those barriers are a minimum or no barriers at all. We want to make sure that people want to come to camp, they want to send their kiddos to camp that we can definitely support in getting them there.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, I can only see a growing need for that, for sure. So we're about out of time. But what is one thing that you would like people to know, maybe specifically about grieving kids that they may come across? Like, what's important to know?

Yeah, it's important to know that like we talked about earlier, kids grieve differently. Even as an adult, we say, okay, these are the ways in which I grieve. So kiddos should also grieve in this way. And it's completely different. As adults, we can stay in our grief for long periods of time, right? For hours, for days, for weeks, for months. Kids, they can't stay in. In a feeling for long periods of time like adults do. And so just because a kiddo is laughing or smiling or joking doesn't mean that they're not grieving. Right. And so we want to make sure that we're providing a space for kiddos to be able to talk about their grief, to acknowledge that those feelings are there, and to really help them process through those feelings. Or let's talk about those feelings, right? And let's talk about what it looks like when we're sad or what it looks like when we're angry or what it looks like when just not having a good day and really being able to help them process through what it is that they're feeling. So we want them to acknowledge it. We want there to be a space, Right. We want them to feel comfortable talking to the adults, to the people that they trust in their world.

I love that. Especially the thought that they can be laughing and smiling, having fun in one moment. That doesn't mean that they're not still grieving.

Right? Right.

It's powerful. Well, Bree, I love the work that you do, you and your team. I'm very appreciative for it. So thank you for coming on and thank you for sharing all of that with today.

Thank you so much.

Rachel,